Class: Do you think Ophelia is actually crazy or is she acting crazy?
Class: So off of what is being mentioned about whether or not Claudius will go to hell...do we think that Claudius worries about being sent to hell? Or does that not affect his decisions?
Can we determine if Hamlet is truly mad yet?
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I feel like he is a little bit misguided at times. But if he had already killed his brother why would it be a problem to kill his nephew.
Kylie: I think it is hard to say whether or not Claudius lets religion affect his decision. I think it probably doesn't affect his decisions too much at this point considering he already killed old Hamlet. At the same time, though, he does live in a time period that is influenced by religion a lot so it could have a small affect.
Kylie, I don't think Claudius worries about going to hell or not. I think he cares to much about his power and that overtakes his worries about hell.
Jack: First of all, great question! I don't think Hamlet is truly mad yet. The scene where Hamlet is feeling sad because he cannot act on his thoughts even though he has all the resources to do so. This conscious decision shows his sanity.
Katy: I think that Ophelia is not actually crazy, just taking crazy actions. She is placed into a bad situation where her father has been killed and she is unsure how to handle it, but her actions are taken to an extreme when she dies (however we don't know if she made the decision or it actually was an accident).
Katy R: I don't think she is acting, she is legitimately distressed. If she acted crazy the whole time, she took it pretty far. I think she drowned herself, so committing suicide just to complete the act would make her crazy if she wasn't considered crazy before.
Katy R: I think that Ophelia is actually crazy because she has found out that her father has been murdered and she misses Hamlet. So she actually has gone insane because she is heartbroken and sad.
Kylie, I think Claudius does think about going to hell. In a previous act we found Claudius trying to pray showing his desire to go to heaven and his fear of going to hell.
kylie:I don't believe Claudius worries about going to hell for his actions because if he did he probably would have thought about that before he killed the king for the throne. I believe that Claudius is only worried about Hamlet and his potential to ruin his crown.
Class: Do you think that Hamlet was actually captured by pirates? Or was it a sceme to get back into the kingdom?
Katy R: I agree with Olivia. Ophelia was ready to end her own life and that shows some degree of insanity if she believes the only way out of her distress is to kill herself.
Kati: So I agree with you, but what do you think then is the reason why Claudius wants to send someone else to kill Hamlet? He is not willing to do this himself.
Kylie: I think we are given evidence that he is worried about going to hell when he can't pray or ask for forgiveness. I think he knows his actions were wrong, but is too greedy and prideful to give up the perks of his crime.
Kylie: I agree i dont think that Ophelia is crazy at all. I think that if anyone in this room went through what she did then they would act a little crazy. I dont think that she is getting the attention that she needs when she is going through this and that is taking a tole on her.
Kylie: If Claudius was worried about going to hell I don't think he would have killed King Hamlet to begin with. I think he is just power hungry and that is making all of his decisions.
Kati A, going off of your comment to Katy R, do we know that Ophelia ended her life in a suicide attempt or was it by some other force?
Kinsey: Great point! So he isn't understanding the meaning of his asking for forgiveness then..would you agree with me there? He is not actually religious but is trying to incorporate it because religion is a very important piece of the location in the time period.
Kylie: I agree with the inner circle on that. I believe that Hamlet is probably trying to protect his reputation. If he killed Hamlet now it may make the public more willing to accept that he also killed King Hamlet. Also once again, he may be slightly influenced by religion, like Ben said above, however I think it is more to protect his reputation.
Kylie: I believe that Claudius does worry about going to hell because if he wasn't, I think that he would just kill Hamlet himself instead of paying someone else to do it. Since he did pay someone to kill Hamlet, I think that he is afraid of going to hell so he forces someone else to do the killing.
Jack: I think he shows signs of being crazy and being sane and its really up to interpretation as to whether or not he has snapped or if he is still in control. Personally I think he has gone a bit insane, but only out of his emotions. I think his anger has taken over him, as evidenced by his murder of Polonius.
Ben: That's true and something I didn't really think about! If it was another force, what do you think it would be?
Sean, I don't think Hamlet was captured by pirates. If that was the case that would be an odd way for Hamlet to be put out of the play. I believe that it is a diversion to get back into the Kingdom to finish what he started.
Dani: It is true that the grief she must be feeling would account for acting "off", but she has gone off the deep end. She is singing and having violent outbursts, and this is because she has been told her entire life what she is meant to do and now she is alone.
Ben: I don't really think anyone would have the motive to drown Ophelia and she has lost her father whom she was close with and she can't trust Hamlet, so I guess she thought suicide was the only way out.
Jeffrey R, how can Claudius sending someone else to kill Hamlet keep him from going to hell? Claudius already killed King Hamlet so isn't he already going to hell? Or will Claudius go to hell for his actions of urging other people to murder?
Kylie: I do not agree. I think he is really asking for forgiveness, but is not in a place to be ready to receive it. If he was doing it just because for show, why would he do it behind closed doors. I think he is trying, but is not ready to give up what he needs to give up in order to be truly forgiven.
Sean: I believe he was actually captured by pirates. He revealed that to Horatio, the one person he still trusts. Why would he need to lie to Horatio?
Claudius only had the courage to kill King Hamlet for the throne. He did it to gain something, and by killing Hamlet he would gain nothing from it. I think the only reason Claudius would kill Hamlet is because he thinks he is the only one that knows about how King Hamlet was murdered.
I agree with Katy, Ophelia had to much on her plate to deal with and suicide was the only option. There was no way another force tried to kill her it wouldn't make any sense if that was the case.
Class: We now have 3 charters who have lost their fathers. What are the similarities and differences in how they react to the same event.
Kati A, thanks for responding, although Katy R makes a good point above, I feel like there is still some chance that maybe Ophelia slipped into the river/creek and just couldn't get herself out due to her heavy clothes. It seems like a stretch but it could happen.
Jack B:I agree with you, Hamlet maybe inactive about his decisions but i don't believe that he will give up that easy. Hamlet isn't king but he still has a lot of leverage among the people of the kingdom, he could have easily pulled some strings to lie about the pirates.
Kinsey: I agree with your position on Claudius and his feelings towards heaven and hell, but do you think those feelings affect his decision not to kill Hamlet himself, or does that involve some other factor like his reputation?
Ben: I feel like Claudius is already in the deep end for killing the king, why would it matter what else he does. I think if he makes the decision to not kill Hamlet then he wont be saved from the repercussions from killing the king.
Ben: I think that he will more than likely go to hell for urging other people to murder because he seems to afraid to kill Hamlet himself but is not afraid to ask others to kill Hamlet.
Katy R: I think motivation insanity is genuine because she has no motivation to put on an act
Kinsey, I think all 3 of the characters actions include the same emotions, such as madness, sadness, and confusion, but they all handle it differently. I wouldn't say any of the 3 characters handled it better than the other, considering all their situations are a little different than each other. It will be interesting to see if maybe Hamlet and Laertes come together.
Class: Do you think now that Ophelia has killed herself Hamlet will feel has if he should do the same? Be with her, leave all of these problems, and end his own pain...
Olivia: I don't think he was really captured by pirates. He may still trust Horatio but he was being sent to England to be executed, and so he needed an excuse to get back to the kingdom. Maybe he didn't have a chance to tell Horatio.
Kinsey (in response to your comment back to me): So I like how to you are thinking about him doing it in privacy, so he is not trying to just ask for forgiveness so that others would know he is doing that. I think you changed my mind a little bit. So his purpose for the sins is stronger in his mind that being forgiven, and stopping these actions.
Dani: I think that it would be a good excuse for him to use if he wants to kill himself but he is still stuck on the decision to avenge his father by killing Claudius and he doesn't want to let his father down. At this point he can really do anything because he already killed someone so he's going to hell and I would guess that Ophelia is also in hell for killing herself.
Kati: I think it plays only a minor role in his decision to not kill Hamlet himself, but his reputation plays a much bigger role in that decision. I think Claudius realizes that if he were to kill Hamlet, it might be exposed that he murdered the old king Hamlet. Also he may loose his throne if he kills his nephew. I think he is more concerned with keeping his power than his morality in that instance. I think it is a concern, but not the main factor.
D Harris: I think that he will definitely consider killing himself to be with her because even though he has been angry with her, I think deep down Hamlet still loves her and now that she is dead, I think he will consider killing himself to be with her.
Dani G, so if Claudius does kill Hamlet by himself, will Claudius be saved from the repercussions killing the King.Jeffrey R, I agree with you and I feel like Claudius's urging of other people to kill Hamlet shows that he is a coward.
Dani: No I do not think that Hamlet will feel the need to "be" with Ophelia, to much has elapsed for Hamlet to kill himself and not take any action against Claudius.
Dani, I don't think Hamlet will go to the extent to kill himself. Hamlet has to much drive to finish what he started by avenging his father's death.
Dani H: I think that would most definitely be the easiest way out of all this mess but would that then degrade who Hamlet was raised to be. Royal, strong, and fearless. I think that if he killed himself it would show his true weakness and it would degrade his family.
Kylie: I agree. I think he is just a weak character. He is too proud of his "achievements" and too overcome by greed and pride to be able to do the right thing. We just talked about how he his a coward even though he is a man of action, and I think this is very true. I think he has no problem being immoral, but is too cowardly to receive forgiveness.
Kinsey: I agree completely. Although religion plays some role in his decisions, once again he feels that the benefits of his sins outweigh the costs. Thanks for your response!
DHarris: I don't think hamlet will commit suicide because he is stuck in the land of the living because he has to kill Claudius and avene his father.
Dani:I think Hamlet will ponder Ophelia's decision to kill herself and realize that she took the "easy way out". Hamlet knows what he needs to do and i believe he is mentally strong enough to prioritize his wants and needs.
Katy: I agree with you. The fact that he was considering it before and then didnt do it shows suicide is on his mind, and may be a solution for him. But now someone else committed suicide that is important to him, and he also has killed someone so i think he'll consider it even more. I think Hamlet will kill Claudius and will quickly commit suicide.
Ben: No it wont make a difference because he already killed the king. He will not be saved if he kills Hamlet or not because he already murdered.
Sean: How would just saying that he was captured by pirates get him out of going to England? Also, if he wasn't captured, then how will he get back to Denmark?
Jack: Yes he has drive, and now the lack of sanity will assist with his mission, but does he have anything to live for? Now that his love is gone, will he wish to live after he avenges his father?
Sean F: I think the pirates are fake because Hamlet is to smart to not smell a rat when Claudius wants to send him away. Also Hamlet has made the decision to kill his uncle I don't think that he is going to leave during this moment of tension.
DaniH: I think he may be jealous of her action. He is constantly grappling with his inaction and his ability to make decisions. I think he may contemplate the easy way out of this mess, but since he's going to hell regardless, he may decide to avenge his father first.
Class: Do you think that Gertrude will follow Ophelia into madness? Will she be to "weak" to handle what is going on?
Connor: I think that Hamlet will prioritize and finish the deeds his father has left for him but then take the easy way out by killing himself. I feel after he carries out this act of killing Claudius for his father he will feel as if he is living for nothing anymore.
Dani H, fantastic question! I don't think Hamlet will kill himself. I agree with Connor on the fact that Hamlet will realize Ophelia took the easy way out, but Hamlet will believe he is better than Ophelia, and therefore justify his actions for living.
Class: Right now in the inner circle they are talking about Ophelia's crazy vs. Hamlet's crazy. How is that an example of Shakespeare's view of women?
Dani: I agree with Kinsey and Connor. Hamlet seems to be very motivated by his goals. Since he currently has goals in mind, suicide will not be an option until those goals are reached in my opinion.
Jaden, The only thing that Hamlet has to live for is avenging his father and killing Claudius. Once he does that I think he will take suicide into thought to join Ophelia and get out of all his troubles that he put himself in.
Andrew: I think how everything has played out so far Gertrude will be unable to handle all this pressure and will follow in the same footsteps as Ophelia. I think Shakespeare will make a point to show Gertrude is weak.
Andrew: I feel like Ophelia cracked pretty early. I think that if Gertrude does break then it will take a lot more. She has seemed to keep her composure throughout the story. But also Gertrude looks a little oblivious at times too. She doesn't seem to grasp the importance of everything that is happening to this family.
Dani: That's a good point. But with Claudius dead isn't Hamlet next in line for the Crown if he isn't punished for the murder?
Andrew B, I think that the possibility of Gertrude following Ophelia into madness is great because she is a woman, wow I feel sexist, but I don't think she will because she doesn't have a great connection with Ophelia.
Ben: I don't feel that Hamlet believes he is better than Ophelia. In the end, I think that he will be jealous of her, that she has escaped the mortal coil and he is left to be tortured by his decisions.
Olivia: Well, if he were to return to Denmark, Claudius would just re-send him to England. With an excuse like captured by pirates, it would be a good reason to go back to Denmark and murder Claudius.
Katy R: I think it shows that Shakespeare doesn't have a high view of women. Like we were talking about in the conversation of Hamlet committing suicide, Ophelia's death and insanity may force Hamlet to decide that he is stronger than Ophelia, therefore displaying Hamlet as "less crazy" than Ophelia.
Katy: I think that the fact that Ophelia commits suicide after going insane shows that Shakespeare doesn't think women are able to handle the stress and are unable to deal with the pain because they are weaker than men. In my opinion Shakespeare hates women.
BenB: so you think she will or do you think she wont?
Connor: That is so true! Your just so smart!
Jaden: I agree with you in the fact of being jealous of escaping the life that is causing so much stress. But why does suicide seem to be the only option?
Katy: I think that Shakespeare shows his hate of women through the method that Ophelia deals with the death of her father, her crazy ends up in death of herself. I think that Shakespeare has Hamlet deal with his father's death differently, and his crazy is more of revenge, whereas Ophelia's death (if she did commit suicide) was sort of her being defeated. Showing how women are weak in his opinion.
Andrew B, I don't think she will. What do you think?
Andrew: I think Gertrude will no go as crazy as Ophelia. I think she hasn't has as much to handle as Ophelia, so she might not snap as bad as Ophelia did. What do you think?
Jaden, I think that you make a great point, Hamlet may very well be jealous of Ophelia, but at the same time, after his jealousy, he will realize that he has something to live for, killing Claudius and therefore justify his belief of being better than Ophelia. None of this may even happen, it's just a guess.
BenB: I think that she will eventually go into madness when the real conflict happens between Claudius and Hamlet. Following the theme of Shakespeare's view of women, I feel that Gertrude will not be able to handle the emotional effect of the conflict.
Drew, good point. I feel like just because Shakespeare hates woman, Gertrude will slip into madness,unfortunately. Thanks for the valuable conversation.
Dani/Ben : Well, if Hamlet is found to have killed the king, an act of treason, will his life be a good one? I don't think suicide is the answer, but he is already depressed, knows he is going to hell, and has no one to love. To him, life has lost all of its luster, and now it is a dull, colorless world full of pain.
Jack: I think flowers do have to do with Ophelia. She picks flowers that have beauty and they soon leave and die. It seems significant because everyone seems to leave her. Her flowers always leave as well as people. But the flowers beauty could be a numbness to all the outside madness in her life.
Jaden, I don't think that Hamlet will have a good life, which raises another question, will there be another twist in the story where Hamlet realizes killing Claudius will do him no good? Or will Hamlet be too busy thinking of his honor to his father that he is blinded to that realization?
Class: I want to talk more about what Madeline just mentioned in the center circle. Do we think that when he stabs the curtain in that scene is part of the insanity? Or like Mitchell said, is this just an easy way to kill him and he was hoping to get Claudius done with more easily?
Ben, what a phenomenal question but unfortunately I believe there will not be another twist in the story. I could be wrong but that is my gut feeling because I think there are other side plots going on with Ophelia and other characters that Shakespeare is working with already.
Class:Do you think that Hamlet represents a flower?The second a flower is picked is begins to die slowly from the inside out. Think of this unpicked flower as Hamlet's life before his fathers death. And the picked flower as Hamlet under his fathers orders to Avenge his death. (The picker of the flower is Hamlet's father)
Kylie, I think that just because Hamlet acts on his emotions, reminder that Hamlet is still young and not an adult, that doesn't make him insane. I feel that he was just eager, thinking that Claudius would be in Ophelia's room, and took the opportunity to avenge his father
Kylie: I think this was just an outburst act of anger. When he stabbed into the curtain it was just a release of all his emotions. This scene was also one of his most emotional scenes and it didn't matter who he was stabbing he was just stabbing into the dark.
Kyliel: I think that the stab into the curtain was more of a impulse. The situation he was a tense one, Hamlet was on edge when he went to see his mother. So when he heard the voice come out of the curtain he acted on impulse. I feel that he did not and was not thinking about his actions, he was acting strictly on impulse.
Jaden: I see your point, and a part of me agrees with you. There is already too much happening in the story to bring in a new twist.
Katy R: I think Ophelia's craziness shows how hard it is to deal with the loss of a father not necessarily a hate of women. It illuminates how bad Ophelia's relationship with her father is. Polonius controls Ophelia and never allows her to be her own person, and when he is gone she can't stand on her own. I think Ophelia madness highlight a bad father daughter relationship not a hatred of women.
Andrew: So if it was just an impulse, why doesn't he care once he realizes who he has killed?
Connor: I think that he doesn't represent a flower as much as Ophelia. Flowers are weak things that can be stepped on or squashed and can wither easily, like Ophelia. I think because Hamlet is a man and therefore strong, and not as easy to die from the inside out. I think he can still control his emotions.
Sam: So do you think her actions are also mourning her father?
Kyliel: because he is slipping into insanity he goes and hides the body. Also he is so focused on avenging his father that he will not let even a murder change his plans.
Kylie: I think that he was just acting out of anger and just stabbed and ended up killing Ophelia's father instead of Claudius. He was just releasing all his emotions and ended up making a mistake.